Starry Heavens Above You

Recruiter: Hello, Alexey?

Alexey: Yes, good evening, hello.

Recruiter: Hello. Can you hear me well? I hope you can see me well too?

Alexey: Yes, perfectly.

Recruiter: Excellent, you too. Thank you so much for coming.

Recruiter: Let me introduce myself. My name is ***

Recruiter: I'm a recruiter for ***. Actually, I think I was still calling them a startup last year. I guess it's not a startup anymore. It's a company of around 30 people. Based in Moscow, working remotely. You can work from anywhere. They're involved in information security.

The company is very strong, I mean, the founders are from top universities, the CTO is a former ***, there are former employees from ***, graduates of top universities. The team is currently somewhere around 30 people.

Recruiter: Located in Moscow, but open to remote work from anywhere, but since the company is involved in information security, they have quite large clients, so in order to pass the audit, a Russian passport is required, a passport of the Russian Federation. This is probably the single strict requirement regarding the interview process. Oh, yes, right, I forgot to mention. So, today our meeting is more of an introductory one, meaning the main purpose of getting acquainted will consist of two parts, so to speak, it's planned for 40 minutes, the first half is just to get to know each other, the second is to make a short technical screening, more on that later, there are specific questions, in general. I'll tell you and show you everything in detail a little later. The next stage is an interview with their lead developer, then with the CTO.

Alexey: Why do I need a Russian passport? Well, I mean, I have one, of course, but I'm curious.

Recruiter: Look, their clients are major Russian corporations. Banks, oil companies, and the like, they're very particular about security, order, and checking who is actually providing them with solutions, especially for information security. So, they're not comfortable having non-Russian citizens on contractor teams. I don't know what dictates it, they don't really motivate their decisions, basically security, that kind of people.

Alexey: Yeah, yeah, I understand.

Recruiter: Do you have any other citizenship?

Alexey: No, no I don't. I'm just thinking, maybe... if in the future I get another citizenship, will I be fired immediately because of it?

Recruiter: I understand, it doesn't sound great, but that's how it is. The field of information security is a rather specific thing.

Alexey: Okay. I also read on the website that they collaborate with the Russian government.

Is that true? Is that so?

Recruiter: Well, to the extent that any contractor collaborates with a large quasi-governmental company, so to speak. Their clients are ***, other top Russian banks. So, for example, what's the level of connection with the government?

Alexey: Well, there's a whole section about it, what's it called... I opened it up and ran into the 'Government Sector' section before the interview... Right, 'Government Sector,' a section on the website. Industries, Government Sector, there it is. So, they work with the government directly, as I understand it. Or they work with them, I didn't quite get it.

Recruiter: Listen, well, again, what do you consider a state? I mean, if some large state-owned corporation, they are their contractor.

Recruiter: To that extent, yes.

Alexey: No, I mean more like a ministry, a department, I don't know, the tax service or something like that.

Recruiter: No, no, no, no, with those kinds of, specifically with government entities, no. At least, I'm not aware of it.

[...]

Alexey: I burned out, I was tired, I've been doing this for 15 years, I don't know what your experience is in HR, but 15 years is quite a lot.

Recruiter: That's a lot, I have less.

Alexey: That's a lot, yes. And I decided to give myself a little sabbatical, to read all those books that I just couldn't read because I never had the time. So yeah, I'm here reading all sorts of philosophy, Immanuel Kant, Nick Land, and others. But at some point, the money will run out, and that means I need to look for something new.

Recruiter: And how urgently are you looking?

[...]

Recruiter: Okay, I got it. One more question regarding documents. Where do you live? Do you have Russian passport? How do we officially employ you, and so on?

Alexey: Documents? Well, a Russian passport, but I live outside of Russia.

Recruiter: And where exactly?

Alexey: In Armenia.

Recruiter: In Armenia, you have an individual entrepreneur and a tax residency there.

Alexey: Yes, yes, yes.

Recruiter: Okay, accepted.

Recruiter: Okay, yeah. You mentioned your hobby, reading philosophy, what else do you do?

Alexey: Isn’t that enough?

Recruiter: Well, you never know, maybe you run marathons, or scuba dive?

Alexey: No, I hike in the mountains, around here. It's a mountainous country, beautiful.

Recruiter: Okay.

Recruiter: So, you've settled in Armenia? Living there long-term?

Alexey: I don't know yet. I mean, what's 'long-term' anyway? If you get an Armenian passport, they hand you a gun right away - not really what I want.

Recruiter: Okay, yeah, the prospects aren't great, but, frankly, there's that prospect with a Russian passport too.

Alexey: Yeah, yeah, well, that's basically why I'm not in Russia, yeah.

[...]

Recruiter: Yes, the lead developer will explain it in detail there. I, unfortunately, am also listening to his stories with great interest, but to be honest, I don't really understand it well.

Alexey: I understand, yes. I'd like to ask another question. I was reading Kant, and I was struck by his idea of the categorical imperative.

Recruiter: That quantity becomes quality?

Alexey: No, that's something else. Kant had the idea that you should act in such a way that the maxim of your action could have the force of a universal law. My question is this. How does the company resolve ethical issues? It interacts with all sorts of things, with quasi-governmental structures, but at the same time, this state is waging a genocidal war. How do they resolve the question of good and evil? Do they have some kind of policy, mission, goal, a way to say which side they're on?

Recruiter: Okay, look, let's start from the end. Firstly, all the employees, or at least most of them, are graduates of top universities, they are educated people, they are normal, reasonable people.

Recruiter: Of course, no one here supports the war. Now, regarding the moral dilemma, it really does arise. And it's not so much because of what you listed, but because the company actually benefits to a certain extent from the fact that foreign contractors have left Russia. That is, the software they make, the security solutions, are essentially in greater demand. Including, in part, because competitors have left, and that really is a problem. Indeed, it can't help but be concerning, but at the same time, the infosec world is such an entity that, when you can't choose the market. That is, you work in Russia, accordingly you can't go and supply, I don't know, a cybersecurity solution for the CIA with a Russian passport, you, well, you can't, you just can't do that.

Recruiter: So, you live in Russia, you're an engineer, and you approach this as purely an engineering problem. Of course, problems arise. Of course, all of this is difficult, but these people are engineers. They love solving problems, love solving engineering problems, for them it's important to make a very good solution, a very good product, and thus satisfy their own desire to construct something, to leave something behind. The fact that it turned out that, essentially, we find ourselves in this country and the product is on the Russian market, well, that's what we have to work with, what we have to live with.

Recruiter: Of course, this isn't all perceived as 'hooray, everyone's left, we're making money here,' because, well, of course, it's not because things are great, but nevertheless, we are in the situation that we are in, I don't know if Kant has any clever thoughts on this, but the company operates in roughly that vein.

Recruiter: Again, there are plans, like, to expand abroad, and of course, I don't know how public this information is, but of course, they are planning to expand abroad. Of course, ideally, they will expand abroad, but for now it's not a company that can just hop on a plane and fly away in one day, like, leaving Russia.

Alexey: Understood, understood. Isn't there a risk of facing sanctions and being unable to travel anywhere with such close cooperation with quasi-governmental structures?

Recruiter: Well, there's probably always a risk, but again, they don't work directly for any departments or ministries, at least as far as I know. There are sanctions on contractors of some large banks where state participation is obvious. In any case, organizations are sanctioned in some order, one way or another. And the position the company *** is in, it's clearly not in the first, second, or even fifth row, probably somewhere very deep down.

Alexey: Okay, well, good. I think I'm out of questions. I don't know, maybe I'll think of something else.

Recruiter: Okay, yes, if something comes up, ask, of course, write to me. I'll try to get back to you on the next stage today. If I don't manage today, then tomorrow.

Alexey: Okay, good.

Recruiter: So your time zone is Armenian, that's Moscow plus one?

Alexey: Yes, yes.

Recruiter: Okay, great, thank you so much. It was nice to meet you and chat. I'll try to get back to you as quickly as I can. All the best.

Alexey: Goodbye.

Recruiter: Yes, and to you too, thank you very much, bye.

Developer: Alexey, hello.

Alexey: Hello.

Developer: Today we'll have a technical interview, purely technical, about Python, Docker, Linux, and networking. The next interview will be on other topics, about the product.

Developer: And we can also discuss something now if you have any questions.

Alexey: Yes, okay.

Developer: Okay. So, as I understand it, you've been writing in Python for a while now and you know it pretty well.

[...]

Developer: Got it. Got it. Okay. Good. I'm out of questions.

Developer: Do you have any questions for me?

Alexey: Well, I don't know, I've already... Tell me, what motivates you to work specifically at this company? That's what I'm interested in.

Alexey: I just started going to interviews and started wondering, what motivates people in general?

Developer: What motivates me to work here is that I like these tasks and that I have a good relationship with my boss. And, you know, I joined this small team of people a year ago, and it's like I joined a startup that's constantly in one long, permanent, extended hackathon.

Alexey: Well, not a very good recommendation, to be honest.

Developer: Listen further. My boss tells me: ‘please don't work too late in the evening, don't work on weekends, please. Don't look at the monitor on weekends’. Something like that.

Alexey: Is it working out?

Developer: ‘Yes, yes, please’ – he says. ‘Please, don't think about work on the weekends.’ And that makes me feel good. On average, I work 8 hours a day. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. I have a great work-life balance. And, you know, how to say it, I'm trusted. Trust, basically. And I always try to live up to that trust, not to fall flat on my face, and to do everything well, beautifully.

Alexey: Well, good. I think I've run out of questions. If they call me back, I'll ask them to the hiring manager, I guess. And if they don't, oh well. Thanks for the questions, it was interesting.

Developer: Okay, thank you for yours. Can I ask a personal question then?

Alexey: Yeah, go ahead.

Developer: Why Kant specifically?

Alexey: Listen, I read various philosophies, not just Kant, Bruno Latour, for example. It's just that I've accumulated books, and I'm reading them.

Developer: Alright, I got you. Books need to be read, especially when they pile up.

Alexey: Well, at some point, yeah, I realized I needed to stop buying books and actually start reading them. I figured it was a good time.

Developer: Okay, I'm out of questions, you're out of questions, let's go then.

CTO: Good afternoon again. My name is ***. I'm from the development team of ***. This is our final interview stage. I suggest we structure it in the following way.

CTO: In the first part, you'll tell me about yourself, where you worked, what you did, your tech stack, teams, and so on. I'll ask questions as we go.

CTO: And in the second part, I'll tell you about us, the company, the team, the project, and answer your questions.

Alexey: Okay.

CTO: Let's begin.

Alexey: Let's. Okay, God, where to start?

CTO: You can start from the beginning and bring it up to today. From afar.

Alexey: What year did I start programming in Python?

[..]

Alexey: Anyway, yeah, that's what I was doing until the end of my work there.

CTO: And what happened in 2022? Was the war already going on, I think?

Alexey: Well, I mostly burnt out. I realized that I'd been doing all this for 15 years and I needed a break. And I quit.

CTO: What were you doing, if you don't mind me asking?

Alexey: I did hiking in the mountains, reading philosophical books.

CTO: Cool. And where were you hiking, if you don't mind me asking? In Russia or...?

Alexey: No, of course not.

CTO: Right, usually it’s a trip to Kilimanjaro in Africa, no?

Alexey: No, Kilimanjaro is a very good place, but the money runs out very quickly there. I mean the mountains around Tbilisi and around Dilijan.

CTO: Ah, you're currently in Georgia or in Armenia, right?

Alexey: Yes, in Armenia.

CTO: Okay.

[...]

CTO: Something like that. We have an office, and a large remote team. We have people in Ufa, Voronezh, St. Petersburg, Minsk, and Yerevan. We also have an office in Moscow, in Moscow City. Some of the team go there twice a week.

[..]

Alexey: Okay, according to the list, so some questions have been answered, yes, I've compiled a list of questions that need to be asked...

Alexey: As I understand that you are, essentially, the head of development, that is, CTO

CTO: Yes, yes, that's right.

Alexey: Well, you have the final say.

CTO: Well, probably, yes, you could say that.

Alexey: Here's a question. If you're the CTO, do you have a share in the company?

CTO: Yes, I do have a share in the company.

Alexey: And is there a stock option program?

CTO: Not yet. Stock options are complicated in general. We haven't even discussed it yet.

Alexey: So, who owns the company besides you, let's say?

CTO: A few others. A few other people.

Alexey: But not the developers?

CTO: No, no, not the developers.

Alexey: Got it, got it, okay. Okay, alright, so here's another question. What skills do you think I would develop? Like, if I get hired by you, what competencies will I pick up, and what will I forget?

CTO: What you'll forget, I probably can't say, because I don't know what you have.

Alexey: Okay, just what I'll develop, then.

CTO: What skills you will acquire. We have quite complex technical and technological solutions. So, there's no backend as such, you won't have to write SQL queries, create APIs and so on. So, essentially, if your resume only lists Django, FastAPI, Flask, we don't even invite you for an interview.

CTO: So, we try to do quite complex screening to only track down senior developers for interviews.

Alexey: Yeah, I understand. So here's a question: tell me, what percentage of women are among your developers?

CTO: A frontend developer, a QA...

CTO: I think that's it.

Alexey: Got it.

CTO: We would honestly be happy if a woman is at the screening or technical interview, we would be glad to hire or even turn a blind eye to something, but patriarchal society kind of dictates its own rules.

Alexey: Okay. Is there at least one openly gay person in the company?

CTO: Well, there are none openly.

Alexey: Okay:It seems statistically there should be some.

CTO: Well yeah, there might be one, but it's just not open.

Alexey: I, actually... It's a question of how, so to speak, free the communication culture is, whether you know this or not.

CTO: I don't know.

[...]

Alexey: So, as far as I understand, if everything is deployed on the client's servers, then you don't have night on-call duties.

CTO: Yes, there's nothing like that.

Alexey: Got it, got it, alright.

Alexey: I also prepared this question, but honestly, I'm already a little unsure how to ask it. Okay, I'll ask it anyway. For me, the main motivation at work, often, or in the kind of work I'd like to do, is the motivation to make the world a better place. The world existed before, I did something, and it became better. In your opinion, can I somehow tap into that motivation with you? What motivates you most in your work in general?

CTO: Well, on the one hand, developers, QA, and so on, usually like to develop things they use themselves. I want to do things I use, I want to do *** etc. It's more complicated for us in that regard. Well, yeah, we're building an enterprise platform. Which, well, we basically don't use at all. As such, use it. We don't even see the production environment. Most of the developers live in our test environment, and that's it. It's more complicated in that regard. But we constantly get feedback from clients. I mean, we have a really large-scale implementation. We're implementing it in, like I said, probably more than half of the banks. The TOP 10 will be this year. *** Next year. *** These are marketplaces, these are media platforms, these are banks, industry, law enforcement agencies. Well, even to the point of where Putin goes to conferences. We're deploying there.

CTO: So, these are quite important, serious, large infrastructures that we protect. These are domestic payment systems. So, we constantly get feedback, that, hey guys, with your solution, we identified this or that suspicious activity. And that's really cool. We're doing something really useful that's used by companies. It's not just bought and forgotten. It's actually being used.

CTO: People don't talk about it publicly because information security is such a secretive field nobody advertises that they got attacked or almost breached. But, in general, it's very relevant.

CTO: And there's a huge demand for it right now. In general, the demand for information security tools. We use a modern stack and so on. And we just understand that we can do anything, do it better than what's already on the market. Well, that's what motivates us.

Alexey: And to the first part of the question, how would you say I'm making the world a better place? ‘I'm making the world a better place because I'm protecting *** from hackers.’

CTO: Well, that's important too, of course. Yes, it's important to protect *** from hackers.

Alexey: I mean, maybe I'm making the world worse, maybe, on the contrary, we need to make it so that hackers break into *** and it will become better.

CTO: I don't know. Honestly, I've never thought about whether we're making the world better.

CTO: It seems to me that every person should just have a good time in their life. Do what they like, what motivates them, what interests them. If they are motivated to make the world better, then they should find what works for them.

CTO: I'm motivated to do something interesting, actually usable, to do something complex. There, in ***, and so on, the development teams are definitely bigger there, for sure.

CTO: There are more complex development processes, bigger infrastructure, and so on. But you come there, you'll be just a small piece, even if you're a team lead, but usually there are teams of 3, 4, 5 people, even if you're the lead of several teams, you still have a fairly low position, you don't decide anything. To try something and somehow influence the product, make decisions and take responsibility, and so on.

Alexey: Got it, got it. Okay, okay. I think I have one question left.

Alexey: I'm a defense witness in the criminal case against Alexei Anatolyevich Navalny. How okay is that for you?

CTO: Interesting question. I can't answer that question. I need to talk to lawyers.

CTO: I don't know, I need to consult with lawyers.

Alexey: With lawyers?

CTO: Could you elaborate? I didn't quite understand. “A defense witness in Alexei Navalny's case.” What does that mean?

Alexey: Alexei Navalny is currently in prison, and I testified as a defense witness in one of the criminal cases he's currently serving time for.

CTO: How did that happen? Why are you a defense witness? What did you testify to?

Alexey: Well, according to the investigation, Alexei Navalny stole all the donations that people sent him. And I was one of those who sent those very donations. So. And I went to an interrogation where I was asked questions about whether these donations were stolen from me or whether I sent them voluntarily. This was even before they were all recognized as extremists, terrorists, and the worst people on Earth. So. But nevertheless, this fact exists, and I would like you to be aware of it. And I'd like to know your opinion: is it okay with you personally. Let's say you talk to the lawyers, but is this normal for you, for the company culture as a whole? Can I tell a colleague about this, or do I need to keep quiet?

CTO: Well, I think it's just a legal question. For the rest, I don't think they care that much. But I think everyone, well, everyone is okay with it. Each person decides for themselves what they want to do, who they want to defend, and so on. Thank God, I avoided donating to Alexei Navalny. Maybe I even wanted to do it. But it's good that I just donated to the 'Need Help' foundation, the Rylkov help foundation, and so on. But so far, they are not extremists.

CTO: So, it wasn't the best idea, of course, in the end, to donate money there, as it turned out.

Alexey: Why?

CTO: Well, as a result, Alexei was imprisoned, his friends went abroad and are making movies. People, who actually donated, helped, went to rallies, they remained in Russia. All the others, who were at the top next to him, they left the country a long time ago, are siphoning off his money, possibly receiving money from some other foundations, and are living well. Ordinary people suffer. Well, this is my personal opinion.

Alexey: Well, I understand, yes.

CTO: Well, we just need to legally find out, but otherwise, it's your personal matter.

Alexey: Okay, okay. I think I've run out of questions.

CTO: Well then, regarding the next steps with you: our HR will get in touch with you.

Alexey: Alright

CTO: Thank you very much. It was a very, very interesting interview. It seems, though, that I was interviewed on my, well, on my life views, but overall it was very interesting.

Alexey: Okay, yes, thank you. Have a good day.

CTO: All the best. Goodbye.

Recruiter: Hello, Alexey!

Alexey: Hello!

Recruiter: Can you hear me well?

Alexey: Yeah, I can hear you fine.

Recruiter: Okay, great. So, let's start and let me tell you first how our hiring process works. There are three stages. First, this 30-minute HR chat with me. Then you'll have a technical interview, about an hour long. And finally, we'll discuss the offer and introduce you to the team.

We do have offices in a few cities: Moscow and St. Petersburg in Russia, plus San Francisco, Berlin, and Dubai internationally. You're welcome to use them for work or meetings, but it's totally optional. This setup also allows us to work on both Russian and international projects.

Project-wise we cover a pretty wide range: everything from FinTech and crypto exchanges to e-commerce. So now about this specific position and project: let me send you a link so you can take a look while I explain.

[...]

We organize events, everything from small internal and external meetups on various topics to major conferences, like ██████ or ██████. We also get together in person periodically, either at one of the conferences that we organize or at the company party. Doesn't matter where we're based, as the company covers travel, accommodation, everything for this event.

Alexey: Um, where are these conferences held?

Recruiter: Most conferences are in Moscow. Company parties vary: one year in Moscow, the next year somewhere abroad.

Recruiter: A couple of years ago we opened our Dubai office, so we did it there.

[..]

Alexey: Alright. Alright. I'll save the technical questions for the next stages then. Do you want to ask me anything?

Recruiter: Yeah... My questions are mostly standard HR stuff, nothing too intense. The main thing I'd like to know is about your experience. Could you tell me about some interesting projects you have worked on recently or what you're doing now? The CV I have only goes up to 2022.

Alexey: Yeah, that's true. I haven't updated my CV in a while. I think you've seen my experience up to 2022, [..] after that I didn't work for a while. Now I'm working for a company that deals with bypassing internet censorship in Russia. I would prefer not to share its name. But yeah, I'm working on circumventing internet censorship. Um, because of this it probably wouldn't be safe for me to visit Russia anytime soon. That's why I was asking how important it is to be physically present in Russia sometimes. I code in Python. Backend services, network infrastructure. And some things in Rust because there is a lot of network code, and it's really hard to get traffic out of Russia, we're always having to come up with something new.

Recruiter: Cool. Cool. Thank you. Are you actively looking for a job right now or just exploring?

Alexey: I'm not actively searching, but I respond when people reach out because I'm curious to see what's out there. Your offer wasn't specific beyond the LLM aspect. I believe LLMs are the future and that AI is going to take over pretty soon. So I need to get some hands-on experience before that happens. In that sense, the opportunity is interesting. On the other hand, for me ...

Alexey: one of the key factors when deciding whether I want to work for a company is the Kantian imperative.

Recruiter: Could you explain that, please?

Alexey: You know Immanuel Kant, the philosopher from Königsberg?

Recruiter: Uh, yeah, yeah I do.

Alexey: He formulated an imperative that goes: "the maxim of your action should have the force of a universal law". The categorical imperative. Essentially it means asking yourself if you could wish for the general principle behind your action to become universal. Broadly speaking, it's about trying to improve the world and create some good for everyone. So I try to assess to what extent each job opportunity contributes to that. It might sound a bit abstract, but that's how I look at it. Helping Russians bypass censorship to access free information is obviously, I think, a good thing. That's why I work at my current company. In your case, to figure out if this role contributes

to something good, I need to know who the customers are – who's using the software I'd be writing – and whether they're bringing some good into the world. That's basically it.

Recruiter: Okay. I see.

Alexey: If you can answer that question, great. If not, I can dig around on the website myself.

Recruiter: Well, I think that's pretty subjective because everyone's idea of good is different.

Alexey: I don't think so. I believe good is universal.

Recruiter: Well, is killing a murderer a good thing?

Alexey: No.

Recruiter: Well, but some people would say it is. So you see, there can be edge cases. It's different for everyone.

Alexey: Maybe, but I think we specifically created prisons so we don't have to kill murderers. In that sense, the society has already answered the question.

Recruiter: But what about the father avenging his murdered son? Is that a good thing?

Alexey: I don't think so. I believe someone who kills for revenge becomes a murderer too. In that sense, the number of murderers in the world stays the same.

Recruiter: True. But prisons don't reduce or increase the number of murders either.

Alexey: Right. They just prevent the next crime. Maybe someday we'll achieve prison abolition and won't lock people up even for murder. But we are not there yet.

Recruiter: Right. Everyone has their own understanding of what's good. So I won't push my perspective.

[..]

Alexey: Then the company names might not be public, of course. Uh, let me actually check.

Recruiter: I'm not super familiar with that side either.

Alexey: I'm always very interested in knowing who the specific person is, who is using what I create. It helps me make more informed decisions about my life. That's how I approach it.

Recruiter: Okay, I understand. I can't really influence that, and frankly, I'm not deeply familiar with how the sales side works. I'll look into it more carefully and get back to you with answers to all your questions.

Recruiter: Alright, I'll get back to you early next week, Monday or Tuesday with feedback, and we can take it from there. Then you can let me know yes or no.

Alexey: Sounds good.

Recruiter: Uh, yes. Thank you very much.

Alexey: Thank you.

Recruiter: Have a good day.

Alexey: Goodbye.

Recruiter: Hi, Alexey. Can you hear me okay?

Alexey: Yeah, I can.

Recruiter: Great. My name is ███, feel free to turn off your camera if you want.

Recruiter: So, I thought I'd start by telling you about the company, who we are and what we do.

Recruiter: Have you heard about HFT before?

Alexey: No. Please tell me.

Recruiter: Sure, of course. Let me explain what we do. We do high frequency trading, HFT.

Recruiter: It's algorithmic trading at very high speeds. Basically, we build the trading bots that operate across different exchanges. The platform itself just determines which connector we use. We are talking tens of hundreds of thousands of operations per second - fractions of a second matter. Low latency is everything for us. These trading models are built by our talented mathematicians, who also have strong programming skills. Structure-wise, ... , our offices are in Moscow and Dubai, but most people are in Dubai now. Probably two thirds. That's where we are hiring. So, I wanted to ask, how open are you to locating to Dubai?

[..]

Recruiter: We currently use Macs and offer hot lunches from restaurants in the office, about 10 restaurants in Dubai with huge menus, really good food. Every morning you can choose, whether you are on a team burger or team salad. We also stock everything for breakfast in the office: fruits, berries, whatever you want, oatmeal. We have an egg cooker. Basically everything so our people don't even have to think about what to eat - they just quickly make something good. We really have everything for that. And our program also includes gym membership and corporate English on two platforms at once.

[..]

Recruiter: Fishing on a yacht, sandboarding, there is even snowboarding. Well, obviously on the...

Alexey: Sorry, snowboarding in Dubai?

Recruiter: Yeah. Yeah. They built a slope right there in the mall. Artificial slope, of course.

Alexey: Well, honestly, the field just is not clear for me. I've never dealt with high frequency trading or worked with exchanges. And I don't really understand how it works. Where does the company's money come from in general?

Recruiter: Well, if I explain it very simply, there is a certain amount of money and our mathematicians came up with an algorithm how to make money with that amount. It's the same as trading just done with relatively small amounts, but very quickly,

Alexey: Well, trading is, as I understand it, is based on news, like "news came out that someone earned more or less than expected", you need to buy or sell. And on the nanosecond scale, I can't imagine how that works, honestly.

Recruiter: Well, all models are also calibrated based on different indicators, and their use of course, affects this tool. When our mathematicians analyze the whole system, they most likely look at news and what's happening overall, time series analysis as well. They look at what's happening on the exchange, say a month ago versus now. They analyze all that and somehow mathematically predict what might happen. And the risk here isn't as big as in classic trading because in HFT trading happens very frequently. Lots of orders are placed, but not for such large amounts as in classic trading.

Alexey: I always thought - maybe I'm wrong - my knowledge is pretty superficial. I don't really understand the market algorithms or anything, - but I always thought if you can predict the future based on the past, then something's wrong with the market. I always thought that market exhibits chaotic behavior because there are so many competing agents all trying to make money. It's like predicting the weather months in advance: It's impossible. Or maybe I'm missing something? I just, I just don't understand how it works mathematically. Sorry, are these amateur questions, maybe?

Recruiter: Not at all, they are good questions. I'm, I'm interested in this too. So you are competing in the market with other HFT companies, right? Or with all companies generally? That's a good question. As I see, most likely it’s a competition with all market participants. But then, well, how do exchanges work in general? They follow the rules of fair trade. They say: "we provide all the market data - all these data about the market to all participants at the same time". And that's true, it arrives at the same time. But there are different ways you can get ahead. What HFT companies do is they might play with cable length though that's usually regulated.

Alexey: Sorry, cable length is regulated? Really?

Recruiter: All HFT companies try to put their server closer to...

Alexey: Ah, I see. Because, like, whoever is closer, got the data earlier. So, they're like, kind of, like an insider

Recruiter: Not really an insider, but roughly speaking, yes. The longer the cable, the longer the information will travel. So if servers in a data center are farther from each other, the one that's farther has its own challenges. What else do some companies do? Signal processing and transmission speed there also plays a huge role. So, technological stages, like memory optimization, that's what interests us. We are interested in developers with memory optimization experience, for example.

[...]

Recruiter: Thanks for walking through that Tell me now what kind of work interests you now? What would you like to be working on?

Alexey: Honestly, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out what interests me. That's why I'm taking interviews and listening to what's out there because I'm bit somewhat out of touch after seven years in ████. Turns out there is so much variety. High frequency training, for instance.

Alexey: I guess I'd like to work on something that somehow makes the world better. I'm trying to figure it out whether high frequency trading does that or not. I've been reading Immanuel Kant recently, about the categorical imperative, I'm trying to apply it to real life. Trying to understand whether the maxim of my action, can become a universal law. So I'm trying, to use Kantian imperative as a framework. So in the end, it seems like Kant says, we should make the world better. So I am sitting here trying to figure out is high frequency trading good or not? I am going to different interviews, trying to understand whether things are better, how I can make the world better in each place.

Recruiter: Yeah, that's actually a really cool approach. I can tell you something from that perspective. Our company's main business is obviously trading, but beyond that, we also invest our profits in educational initiatives and projects. You probably know ███, they used to sponsor a ███ university in Russia, where mathematician study, very talented people. But after the conflict started, they decided they wouldn't sponsor anything in Russia anymore.

Recruiter: So now we are sponsoring that university. Plus we cooperate with such cool universities as ███ and ███. Partnering with their math and their CS departments. We record lectures for them about C++ computer architecture, operating systems. This year we sponsored one stage of the ███, the competition stage that was held in ███. So, from that perspective, we are deeply involved in educational projects. And so from that angle, we are definitely making the world better because we are helping people learn how to program. I mean, obviously they already came to study programming and math, but with our high quality, clear lectures, we hope everything is well structured for them and they fall in love with the subject even better. 'cause teachers make such a huge difference in the learning process. So we are investing in the future

of our country, in future talent.

Alexey: I see, I see.

[...]

Alexey: Have a great day and we'll be in touch.

Recruiter: I think, I'll get back to you by Friday for sure.

Alexey: Good. Thank you. Thank you.

CTO: Hello, hello, Alexey!

Alexey: Hello.

CTO: How are you?

Alexey: Fine.

CTO: Yeah, fine. That's good. You know, Monday is usually a tough day, at least for me.

Alexey: Yeah, I can understand that.

CTO: Alright, so yeah, thank you very much for your time. I will basically tell you a little bit more about us, about who we are, how we work, what we do. Maybe kind of introduce you to the overall kind of situation. And yeah, you could probably do the same, just kind of let me know a little bit about you, kind of introduce yourself and then we can pretty much fire questions to each other. Is it okay?

Alexey: Yeah. Okay.

CTO: Okay. Sounds good. So my name is █████, I'm a co-founder of the firm called █████,

and we are serving as the technical strategic partner for ██████, we're pretty much, you know, responsible for the entire lifecycle for development here at the company. Basically ████ is a crypto P2P marketplace, right? Again, I'm not sure how much you're familiar with crypto industry and it's fine too, but what we do basically, we kind of provide a platform where that allows people around the world to meet each other.

[...]

Alexey: I need some time to think about them, maybe I will introduce myself first.

CTO: Go ahead, please.

Alexey: So, my last job was at ████, ...

[..]

CTO: Okay. Okay. Alright. Sounds good. Sounds good. Yeah, please, I'm here for you to answer any of your questions if you have any.

Alexey: Yeah, and I forgot, is it a remote position or do you relocate people somewhere?

CTO: Unfortunately we don't relocate people and it's a fully remote and people are in different countries all over the world. We have a bunch of people in Russia. We have people in the Baltic states, in Estonia, Latvia, also in Poland.

Alexey: Okay. Okay. Understand. And where the legal entity is registered?

CTO: ████ is registered in Cyprus, so, yeah.

Alexey: Okay. Okay. The other thing that I think a lot about my experience in ████ is ethical aspects. Do you think that there are any ethical or moral things that I should know about or, or that you see as potential threats for like my sense of not doing evil?

CTO: Сould you please provide some example?

Alexey: For example, working for Lockheed Martin has lots of moral implications. They produce machines that kill so, there are implications, even if you are a janitor here, or if you work for AI lab, there are a lot of moral things to think about. Like, when artificial general intelligence will kill all the humans. Do you feel like helping making that happen?

Or like working for any self-driving company, you are taking jobs from taxi drivers and taxi drivers are like second most frequent job or maybe the most frequent job in Russia. So you are producing poverty. Uh, so yeah, and like questions like these. For you, for, for crypto things, I think, the main thing that concerns me is that crypto transactions are very energy expensive and Bitcoin being the biggest one. It's like we are working to heat our planet a bit or maybe like the second thing that concerns me is crypto exchanges are the way to launder money to pay for illegal services. And how do you deal with that? I think maybe these are not the easiest questions, but I prefer to be honest about what concerns me.

CTO: Yeah, it's, it's not easy questions to answer and some of them are very philosophical, right? So especially around the AI, about also about self-driving and about all of that. So not sure if I'm kind of, you know, honestly sharing the same views and I would love, love to kind of, you know, have a deeper discussion, maybe like over a drink with you about that. But I guess it's out of scope for today's call, unfortunately. But it's really interesting that you kind of raising those kind of questions and I really kind of, you know, appreciate different opinions and views on the, on, on these things. So I really like the way you are thinking about it. But so in, in scope of your question, within the ████, I think ████, it's like a part of the ecosystem or the entire crypto community and what it does? It provides a platform. You can think of it as eBay for crypto. We provide a platform and people trade on it about how crypto is utilized and what are the side effects of crypto? What is the advantages and disadvantages. Again, it's a very much, you know, philosophical questions. So that would probably take us, you know, days and days to go for that. It has a side effect, it does burn energy but is there any other additional value that it can produce? So within the scope of ████, I guess there is none of something that would make us controversial from perspective of your kind of thinking. But if you go deeper how crypto is used, you.. Obviously, there could be like a potential for money laundering stuff and you know, someone can pay crypto on the darknet and alike, but, but you know, you can do pretty much that on any other platform. So our job is to fight and we have compliance department that are scanning every transaction, and the better the job we do, the more clean crypto becomes. We are fighting all the scammers and bad actors on our platform. If you do this well, then you contribute towards making the crypto community clean, legal and useful as an instrument for creating a more efficient monetary system. And not just monetary but many other different applications.Our company contributes towards the community as a regulated entity. We are trying to do our best to fight sanctioned users and illegal transactions. We have a set of different tools that perform blockchain scanning. We understand random addresses, sanctioned addresses, darknets and different vulnerabilities that bad actors typically use to launder money.

CTO: So yeah, in general about you, you know, some of the other deeper aspects, I think it's going to be a long conversation. But basically that's it.

Alexey: Um, yeah, but I believe that working for a crypto company implies that you believe in some things that the first crypto anarchists believed in. Like we already have Visa and Mastercard, and a lot of different ways to transfer money. Crypto is new in a way that no one controls the whole market – no government, nobody. It was invented by the first crypto anarchists. Do you feel like you personally and the company help to establish that crypto-anarchism that the first people were into?

CTO: Mm, yeah, I don't think so. Like that the company positions, you know, that way. It's not crypto-anarchist, you know.

Alexey: What is the culture of the company itself

CTO: ██████ is a, just a traditional FinTech firm to be honest. It's a business, first of all. People within the company are there to make money. For them, crypto is a business. I don't think there are very deep thoughts about how crypto is used. They just want to be compliant, secure and provide the best service and product. In terms of anarchy and all of that stuff... Again, it's a very deep question that I would love to spend days talking about. How are governments using money? How are centralized governments and traditional finance structured? What are the cons and pros of crypto from that perspective and from the ethical perspective? Why, when I get a transfer from someone, does my account get froze with all of my funds? It takes weeks and weeks to collect this official paperwork to unfreeze my account.

Until then I have no choice and no resources to feed my kids. Is that ethical or not? Do I want to be part of that centralized system where someone decided to freeze all my funds and money and I have no cash to feed my kids because someone randomly decided to shut me down? Should that be illegal? Should that be in anyone's hands to freeze my account like that just because it's centralized and someone decided to do that? It's a very philosophical question

and very difficult to answer. There is always a flip side to things. From my perspective, I love having control over my resources. I want to control everything I earned. If it stays on my cold storage and I'm holding the keys, I definitely know that no one will take my funds away from me. That adds a lot of confidence for me. And I don't care where I travel. I want to say anything I want about every single leader of the world, whether I'm in Georgia, Russia, or the States, I know that not a single government will take my funds from me and I'm free to say and speak about anything I want and do whatever I want. It's not about anarchism. It's about feeling confident that someone cannot just take my funds from me. That's my personal view of things.

I have been in situations where traditional banks frozen my accounts and I could not use them for many weeks. That's, that's not fair. I haven't done anything bad at all, I think.

Alexey: I think I ran out of my questions. Sorry for them being too philosophical.

CTO: It's certainly fine. I enjoyed it. You are the first one, to be honest. We have been hiring at ████ for more than a year now, and you are the first one who actually asked me that type of questions. I really enjoyed them. If I were in Georgia, I would invite you for a drink to discuss a couple of these topics. They are really interesting. As I said, I don't think I agree with all of them

or with all of your answers, but that would make the discussion even more interesting. That's a really cool. Thank you very much, Alexey, for your time.

Alexey: Okay, thank you. And, could you tell please what are the next steps?

CTO: I think our HR will get back to you on the next steps in one week and share all needed information.

Alexey: Okay, thank you. Thank you for your answers.

CTO: Uh, thank you. You very much too.

CTO: Bye bye, Alexey.

Alexey: Bye.